Unlock the secrets of enhancing workplace wellbeing with our special guest, Julie Fabsik-Swarts, CEO of the Employee Assistance Professionals Association. In our engaging conversation, Julie unveils the transformative journey of Employee Assistance Programs (EAPs), from their inception focused on addiction recovery to their current comprehensive support systems, designed to bolster employee performance and company success. Discover the intricacies of EAPs' response to critical incidents, and understand the delicate balance they strike in providing immediate support while connecting employees to longer-term resources.
As we navigate the waters of professionalizing EAPs, Julie shares invaluable insights on the necessity of specialized training for EAP specialists, diverging from the assumption that all therapists are cut out for this unique role. We delve into the problems that arise when EAP services are not fully utilized, and the newfound strategies to educate managers on tapping into these resources wisely. Our discussion transcends mere implementation to probe how EAPs demonstrate their worth to an organization through real, measurable outcomes.
In this episode, we also tackle the timely subject of EAPs during the COVID-19 pandemic, acknowledging the surge in demand and the outstanding support these programs provided. As we ponder the future of mental health support, we reflect on the intersection of artificial intelligence and the human touch essential in EAP services. Wrapping up, we highlight the irreplaceable value of human connection, expressing gratitude for Julie's expertise and looking ahead to continue this vital conversation on fostering well-being at work during our future events.
You can find out more about the Employee Assistance Professionals Association at
https://eapassn.org/
Find our more about Wellbeing at Work's Global Summits, our Global Hub Community of C-Suite executives and our Bespoke division at wellbeingatwork.world
Unlock the secrets of enhancing workplace wellbeing with our special guest, Julie Fabsik-Swarts, CEO of the Employee Assistance Professionals Association. In our engaging conversation, Julie unveils the transformative journey of Employee Assistance Programs (EAPs), from their inception focused on addiction recovery to their current comprehensive support systems, designed to bolster employee performance and company success. Discover the intricacies of EAPs' response to critical incidents, and understand the delicate balance they strike in providing immediate support while connecting employees to longer-term resources.
As we navigate the waters of professionalizing EAPs, Julie shares invaluable insights on the necessity of specialized training for EAP specialists, diverging from the assumption that all therapists are cut out for this unique role. We delve into the problems that arise when EAP services are not fully utilized, and the newfound strategies to educate managers on tapping into these resources wisely. Our discussion transcends mere implementation to probe how EAPs demonstrate their worth to an organization through real, measurable outcomes.
In this episode, we also tackle the timely subject of EAPs during the COVID-19 pandemic, acknowledging the surge in demand and the outstanding support these programs provided. As we ponder the future of mental health support, we reflect on the intersection of artificial intelligence and the human touch essential in EAP services. Wrapping up, we highlight the irreplaceable value of human connection, expressing gratitude for Julie's expertise and looking ahead to continue this vital conversation on fostering well-being at work during our future events.
You can find out more about the Employee Assistance Professionals Association at
https://eapassn.org/
Find our more about Wellbeing at Work's Global Summits, our Global Hub Community of C-Suite executives and our Bespoke division at wellbeingatwork.world
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Conversations on Well-Being at Work, the podcast by Well-Being at Work World, where we feature speakers from our upcoming summits discussing with them about the current issues in wellbeing, and joined today by Julie Fabzik-Swartz, who's the Chief Executive Officer of the Employee Assistance Professionals Association, and delighted to have her with me today. We just mentioned that, in addition to the summits which we do in eight regions around the globe, there's also a global hub community of HR leaders and a bespoke addition that provides in-depth strategic masterclasses and workshops to our growing C-suite community. You can find out more about Well-Being at Work World at our website, beingatworkworld. We're going to be talking today about EAPs and I hope we're joined by Julie. So welcome, julie. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you, john.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. And how are you doing? You're doing keeping well, Absolutely. We are busy, but that's good. I always say if you're too busy, then too bored.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so perhaps you could start just by. I know you're going to be sharing some of your experiences at our event coming up in New York on March 12th. We'll get this out before that happens. People can hear that before we can dive a little deeper into some of those issues you're going to be covering. But perhaps you could tell us first a little bit about the Employee Assistance Professionals Association who and what you are and what you do.
Speaker 2:Great EPA is an international association. It's 50 years old. We have members throughout the globe, primarily in the US, but also in 40 other countries, and we do work throughout the world, supporting EAPs in their personal growth and development, advocating for them, and we also have an international conference every year. Additionally, we also support a certified EAP, the CIP, which is the standard of the industry, where individuals can pass exams in order to become truly recognized as a professional in the EAP world.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, and we'll include a little link to the association in our info on this podcast so people can find out even more. What do we do about EAP? What exactly is? Perhaps you could just provide us with a little definition of an EAP so we all know what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:So in EAP and they evolve in different ways that they approach the inner company out of the company through a Zoom medium or a hybrid of it. Their role is to work with employees to keep them in their job and keep them focused. So it's a win for the company it decreases turnover, it decreases absenteeism and it helps employees do their best work ever. It also helps employees with their challenges. We always say that the customer, the patient and the company are both clients of the EAP. So EAPs have been around for many years. They've evolved from their roots in addiction to solving any type of problem and helping work with that employee to keep them living their best life and producing their best work.
Speaker 1:I know, when I think of EAPs I think of particular sort of conditions where people go to them for assistance. It might be around, they might be having financial struggles, struggles with depression, but there's a whole area I know we were talking about earlier which I would characterize in formally a sort of emergency response.
Speaker 2:Could you tell us a little bit about that, Because I was particularly interested in those situations where an EAP services become particularly neat as an urgent so, on the day-to-day, a confidential session with an EAP may help an employee with anything from mental health issues like addiction, depression, those helping them to get on the path of being diagnosed with, maybe a mental health disorder such as schizophrenia or bipolar disease, or maybe dealing with, as you mentioned, financial crisis, maybe elder care, even dog care. People get dogs and if their dog is tearing up their house, they're not going to be very engaged at work. So we have a whole variety of resources that our EAPs work with and learn from. Additionally, they respond to what we call critical incidents. The critical incident may be someone commits suicide on the job or an extreme tragedy happens.
Speaker 2:In the United States we have a real problem with gun violence. It happens in workplaces. How do you deal with the aftermath immediate aftermath and the short-term immediate aftermath with your employees to prevent post-traumatic stress disorder, ptsd? Eaps often come in and work with groups of employees to help triage where they are, where they need to be, who need support what support does that look like? And really trying to decrease the amount of PTSD that really affects workplaces and can really shut a company down for quite some time. So it is essential that your EAP really knows what they're doing or knows how to call out for more resources when they're faced with situations like this.
Speaker 2:As I was saying earlier to a colleague there, they may deal with having an EAP who deals with things works on the near lights, somebody got sucked through an engine or finding an unhomed person in a subway system that maybe have frozen to death or overdosed on drugs. How does the staff deal with that? And the EAP is there to work through that terrible situation. Also, any member who runs a very large hospital health care system, a nurse who is spit on or assaulted or maybe called a racial name during a shift how do you keep them from reeling and not just saying I've had enough of this job, I'm going to find something else to do, but dealing with that, processing through it and moving on to staying employed and helping the next patient?
Speaker 1:Right. So it's very much focused on getting help to someone when they need it, with a sort of a time on that, versus long-term therapy that somebody might seek. I've seen some stuff recently about therapists being located in offices so that they're right near where people are so they can have ongoing support. But that's a longer term kind of timeframe than for the AP right.
Speaker 2:Correct and the AP is on a much shorter time. Most of them are probably around five sessions. So if it's a short-term issue and they can help a resource or have a short travel about problem, they'll do the work themselves. Most of them are qualified social workers or therapists or psychologists, but that's not 100% true. There's also peer-to-peer programs and things like that.
Speaker 2:But if you're dealing with a long-term challenge and you need some of the EAP can help refer whether it's in an office, which might be time efficient, or refer to out to a therapist and get you in the door much faster than maybe your traditional health insurance can do. I'm hearing the US it's four months to get into see a therapist and maybe even longer to hear to see a psychologist or psychiatrist, and then if you're a child, if you have a child crisis in your family, it could be over half a year. So an EAP really is a great resource to go to. As I said before, everything is confidential. They cannot break that seal of confidentiality and they are protected on most countries, just like a doctor is protected or a lawyer is protected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now I can see that obviously the confidentiality side is really important, but on the other hand, what I hear suddenly is a certain reluctance to use the EAP. So I hear people talk about that occasionally, that there's almost a stigma associated with getting help for things isn't there in this world. So that's something that you have to overcome in an organization, right, paul?
Speaker 2:Correct and I really believe strongly that it starts at the top. I heard a story recently about a CEO who finally changed his weekly gym appointment to therapist. No one would begrudge you for going to see physical therapy, but putting therapist has been taboo for many years and we are trying to change that. Us and other associations and nonprofits across the globe are really trying to change that stigma of mental health as being something you can't talk about. We want you to be able to talk about your challenges in the workplace, and it starts at the top.
Speaker 2:When the C-suite people do it, then it's a culture that says it's okay. When the C-suite people say it's okay to take not every time, but a mental health day every now and then because you just need it and then come back stronger, then that's a culture. That kind of thing gets wrapped and appreciated and valued and I really think that our next generations coming up are demanding it. The workers of the latest generations are demanding what are my benefits and what is your culture of mental health and support, because they recognize this as part of being a human being and we need to not work people to death, but rather get the most efficient time out of them while they're in their job. It's not about volume of work, but about how much you achieve.
Speaker 1:Now I know when you're going to speak in a couple weeks in New York. There were some stats that you had from NAMI. I thought it'd be nice if you shared that, because it illustrates very nicely the need there is among the employee community for these kind of services. So as you can share some of those NAMI I think you have your fingertips there, right.
Speaker 2:Sure, nami is the National Association of Mental Illness here in the United States, a very big organization, and they just did a poll of US companies about their mental health practices and how people are feeling. I have one here that says 74% of full-time employees in the US say it's appropriate to discuss mental health concerns at work. Only 58% are really comfortable in doing that. To me that's a real disconnect. We are not really comfortable in telling our bosses I have a challenge, I've got an addiction, I've got depression issues, I need a mental health day. One in three US employees say their mental health has suffered because work and half-reported burnout in the past year.
Speaker 2:I remember a time dating myself in age, but I remember a time where we were just laying off people and piling the work onto the current workers. Eventually the saying goes the chicken comes home, chickens come home. We really can't do that forever. You can ask an employee to step up and give it 100%, but 100 hours plus a week ongoing will end up in burnout and end up in mental health challenges. And we're facing that now. And these are the people who can really help work with management, work with leaders, help deal with that issue. And how do we find what is an appropriate workload so that we decrease turnover, we decrease the kinds of things that make employees a close to a company more than they should be. We want to return on investment for employers and we want people to be mentally healthy and happy and living their best lives.
Speaker 1:And I noticed that normally stuff, there was fairly broad agreement among employees that mental health was important to workplace culture and that there was an expectation that employees provided healthcare coverage of some kind for them in terms of the world. I'm based in Canada, but the situation in Canada is a little different, where there's more public provided services, but there's still recognition here. So this has a big impact on engagement and on the culture. So these are fundamental things around the performance of an organization.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We are big advocates on what I call. We have a CFO and CMO. I'm a big advocate of chief wellness officer, cwo.
Speaker 2:Put someone in the C-suite level to really embrace.
Speaker 2:How do we keep our employees healthy, both mentally and physically, and how do we keep them engaged and how do we keep good talent? You're not going to keep good talent, but any HR person will tell you you've got to have a multiple of things and one of them is if they're not feeling involved and viable and listened to and that their challenges in mental health are addressed. And the only way to do that is through really an EAP on site or on a Zoom call or available when they are needed. So I really recommend that organizations take another look at EAP. It's not just a benefit where you check retirement and you check Medicare and you check the box, but really if you use an EAP well and you really have a viable EAP program, then companies should be getting a very high return on investment. And there's research. Dr Mark Attridge does a work-police outcome suite every year and this research tells us year in and year out that there is a significant return when a good EAP is and the program is involved. Well, talk a little bit about.
Speaker 1:But the next thing I want to get to is what constitutes a good EAP. Some of the key components, but I think that idea that just strikes me as being particularly appropriate is you mentioned about how long it might take to get professional help through any healthcare system you happen to be part of, and I remember doing an event a number of years ago in the US and there was a statistic there and I think it was also an Army statistic. We said it's around depression. It typically takes six years from when someone first experiences symptoms to them actually seeking help, never mind the gap from when they seek help and getting it. There is a real challenge, I think, around being able to provide, or a real need to be able to provide, these kind of services at the moment they're needed versus waiting till the situation gets worse. So that seems to me to be a very should be a big selling point, as it were, of the EAP.
Speaker 2:With modern technology, there should be no reason that somebody cannot get into C and EAP in a company within a matter of days. So we, those EAPs, can respond in a very timely fashion. Some of the measurements and we can provide more. But vision says are they responding? Are they qualified? When they respond, just because you're a therapist doesn't mean you are an EAP. There's specific trainings and values and specific areas in the industry that must be covered and a lot of therapists don't have that. Not to not therapists. Therapists are wonderful. Eaps are often referring to that long-term therapist, but it is not a. You can just plug someone in and say, oh, that'll solve our EAP program. So we really have want to talk more, and definitely to companies to make sure that their EAPs are qualified, that they are looked at, that they are doing workshops and programs to constantly market and educate their services, both in the higher level and to the mass employees as a whole.
Speaker 2:The APs are this wonderful resource, but unless it is really promoted at the highest levels, they get underutilized and they go see, no one uses our APs, we don't need them. It really is. It has to be a culture of embracing mental health, embracing challenges and getting managers. So we have a course coming up, in fact next week, for managers, just for them to learn when to call the AP. How does that work? What is a mandatory referral, where it just to go see the AP because of the management? What can they expect back from the AP? All kinds of questions are there and it's really crucial that leaders and managers really understand ins and outs of it and with that acceptance and understanding of that kind of system they will really reap the benefits of a good EAP program.
Speaker 1:So that's the situation there. The AP serves as a tool for the managers around performance. If they see someone's got a challenge with performance in some way, that's driven by an external or maybe a mental issue. Obviously a manager is not in a position, and not expected to be in a position, to diagnose anybody or fix anybody. Nevertheless, there can be mandatory referrals to EAPs. So we've got to do something here. You have, rather than just encouraging a little nudge, it's going to be like a bit of a push there.
Speaker 2:Yes, Sometimes, in the right situation, they can do that. And maybe Joe comes in and they suspect there's alcohol on his breath. Maybe Joe has an alcohol problem Boy, how do we get him over to the AP to deal with this situation right away? Or Susan's going through a divorce and she's just not there. Maybe there is a subtle way of doing it or maybe there's a mandated way of doing it, so EAPs can respond to both and then just marketing themselves to the entire workforce that they are there, educating the workforce on basic little things and then letting them know that they're there for helping. So they're not there to be big brother or to tell you, tell your challenges to. And then they go back to your boss or your boss's boss and tell them all your problems. It is a confidential situation, just like in any therapy, and they're there to make your life as an employee more successful, and when you're successful, the company's successful. It's really a win. So that's the bottom line.
Speaker 1:So what we're finding with, as I say, we being at work currently with the sort of what we're doing, a wellbeing and the events we're doing, and the discussions we have an advisory board with some fairly senior folk from around the world who are engaged in wellbeing in organizations it's certainly some sort of pressure that's being felt around demonstrating, I say to use the words return on investments, because that's certainly what it is, but it demonstrates it, demonstration that the things that they're doing are actually effective.
Speaker 1:And it seems to me that's that in your and again, if I'm wrong, tell me your sort of role is in a sense, on the one hand, sort of professionalize or emphasize the professional nature of the EAP. So ensure that, because it seems to me that anyone can put up a shingle and say, hey, I'm an EAP, here's, send your people on zoom or whatever. It's just that happens often. But there's a which is different to being a psychologist, a professional psychologist, right. So you want to make sure that there's a, there's an accreditation, there's a validation of the skills and abilities of the people involved, but also the promotion of it, because there's a danger, it seemed. Is there a danger that people going to set up any APs, tick the box, we've got any AP, and then they walk away rather than actively engaging employees in trying to get them involved with this. Is that fair?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You're absolutely on the money there and working with a good EAP and a good EAP program someone who's experienced and has certification and has been around the block, seen a lot of it they really can help a company or an employee really, as I said, deal with the crisis or deal with the day to day that's in front of them that are preventing them from being the best employee they can be. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but people who, in leadership, want their employees to be in that best place because they will do their best work, you will keep your talent, you will bring the best of everything forward, and we can't do that if you're worried about my 85-year-old father at home alone or I'm dealing with depression or addiction in any way, shape or form. They really are there to support the employees, but also to make the company better.
Speaker 1:So I know that's part of our discussion coming up in March. You have some information everywhere you characterize the top characteristics of successful EAP, so perhaps you could share some of those to help my listeners get a sense of what is the meat of the issue in terms of comprising what's successful as an effective and professionalized sort of EAP.
Speaker 2:You want to make sure your EAP is not just a therapist or workplace. It's someone who's very qualified. As an incentive, we recommend our CIP certification, which is now international. It's actually being used quite a bit in Japan. We are bringing it to other continents. You want to make sure that your data is make sure that it's really just like your corporate data. You want to make sure that all of that information that the EAP collects is being held in privacy and that cannot be hacked or breached in any way, even within the same corporate area. The managers cannot see that data. We want to make sure the employees are engaging. That's it. What is the percentage of usage? That's one, one metric, but there's a whole bunch of metrics. What is the percentage of people who are hearing the message and this is a drinking the Kool-Aid Really being able to feel comfortable that there's someone there and supporting of them, in support of them?
Speaker 2:With something happens, is your eap coming right to the program and dealing with the situation on top of Whatever there, whatever else they've got going on? You want to make sure that eap is qualified and trained or knows who to reach in those emergency situations when you have a major incident. Can they customize to your organization. We eap with every major league baseball team in the country. Back we had the head of their medical health services. Come speak to us or conference last year. Every single, every single sports team the country has that for their athletes and their staff. I'm sure that the eap program for the philadelphia fillies is not the same as for the Denver Nuggets basketball team. It is different and every soccer football team may be different.
Speaker 2:Want to make sure that it's customizable. Are they there or is there something there to respond when someone has a crisis two o'clock in the morning, work doesn't end at five or even seven or even nine. Mental health issues, just like medical health issues, are twenty four hour games. So how are they addressing those challenges in the middle of the night? Is there on call system? What is going on with that?
Speaker 2:So those are some of the those challenges. Are they referring to somebody efficiently? So if they identify me as having a trouble with amand opioids, do they have a treatment center that can get me in right away? And they got a that they have a really good record of solving those problems. Are they confidential to educate the employees and are they really there dealing with the feedback that they're getting. So, such as some of them, the metrics that are really Can be utilized to figure out if your program is in good shape, and I highly recommend going on our website and under resources we have a research page, research pages, all the updated research going on in this field and especially the workplace outcome. Sweet said I mentioned about doctor Mark that you're earlier you can really see what return on investment a good company can have on with their program.
Speaker 1:I love that. One question is I know we talk a little bit earlier about the impact of covid. First things I want to touch on before before the impact of covid and that saw an increase in use of the ap's right, that there was a it is unbelievable increase.
Speaker 2:Yes, was that enough in the ap's on the face of the planet to deal with that? You remember we were locked at our homes. If you are A single person, oh my gosh, you had almost no interaction with the fellow. You mean, we really learned very hard, the hard way, that we really need each other. We are social animals and we do not do well just being with ourselves 24 seven and while we may have been doing work on our computer depression level, the sleep level that the challenges of that time were overwhelming and and I really want to emphasize the ap's who put on those horrible masks that were them constantly and went to work in hospitals because our medical staff was on overload if you remember, there were no doctors and nurses and ventilators and unbelievable challenges and those ap's were right there alongside of them Helping them to deal with that crisis and, as I said, they were just not enough. We still have crisis every day. I have a member who works with the fm, goes out and helps the investigators deal with the horrible things they see at a crash site when a plane or a train crashes. What it is an ongoing challenge to keep a workforce 100% healthy and in covid times. It was just brutal, it was just for our members.
Speaker 2:I still sorry that my princess are started when we called the when pandemic conversation every Wednesday, many ap's again together on a zoom call and, just like therapy, they compare notes. What are we doing? What do you do in this situation? No one knew what to do during covid, never dealt with that before. And they compare best practices. And how did you deal with that? And that has now evolved and we still have it. We call the Wednesday wellness conversation because now Wednesday's is almost like ap therapy. They get together, talk about topics, issues, concerns, they ask questions, they build relationships. Even though it's still on zoom, they can share that best practice model throughout the globe on that Wednesday well conversation. So it's really fascinating.
Speaker 1:Because there was a study here done by Deloitte. There was a few years ago there was a fire in a northern Alberta town called Fort McMurray and it's a large oil sands operation in in northern Alberta and this fire completely so decimated the town is very traumatic experience of everyone and they saw a huge spike in. I think what they were measuring was actually impact with sort of emergency department visits around mental health that I think that was it, but don't. I should revisit the three, look at it again and make sure. But basically it was demands on the mental health, on the sort of provincially provided mental health services by people and they showed they saw this in unexpectedly increased dramatically in the aftermath of this fire with the expectation that that would go down and it hasn't done and this has been like this report. It's been like five years afterwards. Is that what we've seen with the AP, where you've had that heightened demand during COVID? Has that been maintained or has it dropped down to pre-COVID levels or is it somewhere in between, Would you say?
Speaker 2:I think it's more somewhere in between. I think what COVID did was I don't think it invented the conversation, I think it's sped up conversation. We were probably always on a track to deal with mental health issues in the workplace, but COVID sped it up because it became so in our face and so prevalent at every day-to-day work and it became reality that, oh my gosh, I do have a challenge here. I am dealing with depression. I do need to seek help and then, as you said, it hasn't gone down is because people are realizing that mental health is real and it's okay and that we need to seek assistance sometimes.
Speaker 2:And that's what's coming into focus and, as I said earlier, the next generations of talent coming into the workforce. They are demanding. They're not asking, they're demanding that mental health and your culture of mental health be right there, upfront or they even take the job. They wanna know that this is some place that they're gonna be safe and cared about and develop under those guys, not just oh, yeah, it's in your health pack and check the box. So it's really a crucial aspect and leaders of tomorrow really need to be thinking this as part of the big picture.
Speaker 2:Broker went through a period where benefits brokers would say things and do deals such as buy this medical insurance, we'll give you your EAP for nothing. Most of the time, nothing is what is good as you pay for it, but really making sure your EAP program is really working for your company and you're getting that return on investment. I keep going back to those terms because if it's not really working for your company, you need to assess and figure out how to find a program that's gonna work and help your workforce become the best they can be in their work life.
Speaker 1:Great. So one final question before we conclude. No conversation nowadays is complete without the AI question. So I think there's two things. One is two part question. The first would be are we seeing AI impact people's mental health? And the second is AI gonna impact how EAPs work or how they're going to?
Speaker 2:I guess probably. I just saw an article recently that 22% of the workforce is concerned that AI is gonna come take their jobs. That anxiety is real. Whether it's really gonna happen or not, that still will be determined, but that anxiety is real. We need to be addressing that and dealing with it and getting people to understand that, even if someone were to take your job, it's not happening tomorrow, so that's something that needs to be clarified in our workers. Secondly, we don't really know where the future is going with this. What I see. This may change my opinion five or 10 years from now, but what I see is AI is a wonderful tool that can help EAPs in their work, in what they write in approaches, to what they see and what they do.
Speaker 2:Ai is never, ever gonna replace person-to-person interaction. You have now a Zoom and that's technology, but it's never gonna replace talking to a human being. I'm always careful to say bots. Some of the therapeutics online have experimented with that and a couple of them have gotten sued. There was one I particularly remember got sued because a customer told them that they were suicidal and the bot told them to go ahead and kill themselves. It was more efficient. I also heard a story about an attorney who got lazy and used AI to write his briefs. In the brief he cited a number of court cases that backed his position. Judge looked up the briefs that AI had made it up. It's not 100% there. We are not replacing human beings with real human emotion on either side of the table. So AI is a helpful, wonderful, amazing tool. I personally just ignore it, but it's not gonna replace an EAP or a therapist or a manager.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine a situation where I might feel lanccious and I might go to chat GBT or the sort of wellness AI equivalent and say I'm feeling really lanccious right now, what might be a good thing to do? And it might come back and say try deep breathing or humming. I had someone send me an email suggesting humming was a good way of dealing with anxiety. I tried it. It was actually quite helpful. I was quite surprised, but for those kind of like relatively minor things one might think that might be useful. But then again I think of that and don't think is that really any more useful than the fact that I've got a book on the bookshelf about dealing with anxiety that I may or may not have? So I can't imagine some of those scenarios you described. It might be a death in service, it might be a shooting or something like that. Going to chat GBT for advice on what to do, for that doesn't seem to sit right with me. But that might be an age thing, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I just find it hard to believe that any online bot is ever going to replace a person. Who's gonna be able? It may assist in doing an assessment. It may assist in understanding. Here are the choices EAP what do you think is the best for this particular case? But understanding the emotions and the feelings are just never gonna be. You're just never gonna make that into an online magic, robotic answer, because we're human beings. We've got too much going to make us who we are. There's too many variables and, as much as it is truly an amazing future, it is never gonna really be able to assess and deal with our emotional, mental health at 100% pass.
Speaker 1:That's not gonna do it. The one thing I won't replace is a great guest, so thank you for joining me today and being one of those. I appreciate it, looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks time and sharing the stage, and I'm glad we got this opportunity to dive a little bit deeper into some of the issues you're gonna be talking about than you'll have with the time constraints we work at the event. Thank you very much and thank you to our audience and we'll be seeing you soon, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.